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A "three o'clock no sleep blockchain" WeChat group controversy triggered by the carnival

via:博客园     time:2018/2/19 12:33:31     readed:765

一个“三点钟无眠区块链”微信群争论引发的狂欢(附链得得独家整理分享全文)

Chain get App Note: February 17, 2018 Lunar New Year's Day two, gathered Qtum quantum chain Shuai Chu, distributed capital Shen Bo, Long collar capital Cai Wensheng, real Ge Xu Xiaoping, the famous investors Xue Manzi, Chen Weixing, the Weixinhua, Lily network Muyan and other well-known people WeChat Group "Three o'clock sleepless block chain" depth discussion and controversy of the blockchain, the controversy was organized and spread out, triggered a small The impact also led to many people's discussions, mixed reviews.

Zhao Hejuan, founder of Chain Access, commented that the entire debate is not the same as the concept of many concepts, and it feels a bit like a chicken.

But the discussion itself is quite interesting, and the App for the Chain got all the content and the complete contents of the Q & A of the main Spokesman Shuai Qiu.

Acting group leader, the founder of quantum chain handsome early shared 25 topics, covering: 1, the technological evolution of the public chain; 2, the valuation model of blockchain projects; 3, investment opportunities in the area of ​​blockchain; 4, Blockchain technology future Imagination.

Chain App is the 25 questions and answers, organized as follows, slightly revised, we welcome more people also sent your opinion:

Question 1: stellar recently fierce in Silicon Valley, do you think the threat to eth big?

A: Eth (Ether) has become an ecosystem where the greatest risk comes with the inherent risks within one's own ecosystem, but the risks are not that great unless there is a 10x advanced idea of ​​Ethereum And technology, have the opportunity to replace Ethereum, otherwise it is a great threat to the nature, but not with the positive competition with Ethereum in other areas (outside the ICO) force, there are still a lot of business and investment opportunities.

Question 2: Excuse me, what do you think about the millions of eps that eos claims?

A: The blockchain is not for TPS (TPS refers to transactions per second), but if we need faster TPS, the existing banking system and Alipay and WeChat are both a Better choice. In addition to the degree of decentralization and TPS is basically an irreconcilable conflict, many of the replacement of TPS is to sacrifice network to the degree of centralization to obtain, I personally think, simply in pursuit of higher TPS, but it makes no sense , Especially if the network after only a few dozen large nodes (this is not the early stages of the bank?), Then the high TPS, very often not significant. TPS makes sense for specific things, but requires a compromise with the philosophy behind cryptocurrencies. Because traditional IT technologies have been studied for distributed systems for decades, all TPS based algorithms based on BFT (BFT) and various variants can achieve very high TPS, however Centralization is relatively high, ordinary people in the network can not get the right to peer. If you can not participate in the supervision and verification of the network, in fact, the use of existing financial services are more than enough.

Question 3: Quantum chain design of the initial three core is what? Quantum how to build their own ecology? Quantum globalization is good, even South Koreans like Quantum, Shuai early landing strategies and methods in different states around the world how to look?

A: The core design of the quantum chain: 1, security, cryptography for the money system, security is the first one, there is no safe foundation and mature software as a support behind the development of hard; 2, compatible, basically quantum chain Compatible with bitcoin UTXO and all BIPs, EVM compatibility and EVM-based ecosystem (UTXO means unspent transaction output, BIP refers to bitcoin expansion proposal, EVM refers to Ethereum virtual machine); 3, flexible, the largest quantum chain innovation is based on bitcoin transaction model, support for the realization of smart contracts, so that Ethereum's virtual machine can run on the bitcoin network, while the current Qtum network is POS stage, the world is probably 3000 full nodes (chain gains APP Note: POS refers to proof of equity, is a consensus chain consensus algorithm). POS is more friendly to business applications. Through the technical support, development tools, community road shows, investment incubator, constantly building the ecology of the quantum chain. The more important thing is landing on the local community developers and local project developers to achieve localization, the international team will also be a lot of help.

At a Glance The Big Deal Many blockchain projects are reopening in the early stages of banking, with everybody's irrationality about technology fanaticism and theological narration. At this stage, we can not see the centralization of meaning, Many problems can be covered.

About UTXO and Account, are two basic models of the blockchain system. For more information, you can refer to it here: http://news.8btc.com/why-qtum-choose-utxo-model-and-the-benefits

Question 4: Decentralized trading system future direction of development is?

A: Going Centralized Trading System I have not studied much about a few specific cases. The earliest decentralized trading system was the colorcoin trading pair based on mastercoin and counterparty, followed by NXT and BTS Centralized trading system, followed by the emergence of etherdelta (based on the smart contract trading system), from the experience above, the experience of several decentralized trading system similar to the centralized trading system, the high frequency of deep liquidity ,Differs greatly. About decentralized trading system in the order matching and order synchronization, this can find some developers in this area, consult.

Question 5: ipfs really can really decentralized web and app? Not a simple one? What is the point of going to the center app?

A: IPFS specific technology to achieve without in-depth study, but read the design concept, the project itself also mentioned for several years, to the center of the web and app should be serverless service to developers, as long as the interface, Regardless of who is behind the service. (Note: IPFS is a blockchain-based point-to-point hypermedia protocol.) Is not a simple token, depending on the ecology behind the bitcoin is essentially only a bit of data in the Bitcoin network, decentralized app is still meaningful, but at present a lot of Dapp Go to the center of the application) is really just an app + blockchain as the settlement layer. However, the future of blockchain and Dapp's future will transcend the existence of cryptocurrency and will become a social infrastructure: trust. Dapp has many good directions: games (props, channels), content (movie music text), Internet of Things, ID and more.

Add: @Dovey Wan Dan Hua capital UTXO is absolutely superb, we generally say blockchain actually only know chain of the block to solve the problem of timestamp, but do not know there chain of transaction (UTXO) to solve the distributed system account balance The biggest difference from the account model is that Bitcoin has its own set of standard fund management solutions, 2PKH, P2PK, multiple signatures, P2SH and OP_Return, which basically realize the efficient and safe management of funds.

In addition stateless bitcoin coupling less than Ethereum, do not bind the account tightly, the capital and data operations. Loosely coupled and tightly coupled systems are still different.

Question 6: Everyone has been saying that it is necessary to decentralize and intensify the high level of Dapp's certain degree of contradictions. However, we can not just stay at the stage where btc is used as a currency and eth only serves as a currency to be raised. Developing Dapps to address user needs, that is, the need to strike a balance between a purely decentralized utopia and user application world, Dpos is a solution for now, what do you think? How to grasp the degree of the two?

A: Indeed, many Dapps are pseudo-concepts, but cryptocurrency itself has begun to infiltrate as the first successful application based on blockchain technology. My consideration for the future blockchain system is that there is enough decentralization at the bottom and the application layer can be neutralized. We need a trustless bottom plus an application layer that requires trust, on the one hand, a trustless premium (trust cost Lowest) + centralized premium (centralized), Dapp still has a lot to see in the future, such as games (virtual assets and channel changes), digital content (movie music), IoT security and management , Digital identity areas, inclusive finance (insurance autonomous finance, micro-financial services, etc.). At present, many Dapp just use the characteristics of a blockchain, that is, the issuance and clearing of tokens. The blockchain has many other features that need to be discovered and discovered.

Question 7: I would like to ask the next early, for the feasibility and safety of cross-chain technology view, at present whether you are optimistic about this aspect of the project, while the chain of data on the chain how to ensure the credibility of the safe and reliable links, Have you seen?

A: I personally feel that the current cross-link area is still in its early stages. Both Bitcoin and Ethereum networks have limited processing power. In the process of continuous evolution, I personally feel that this cross-link is not yet mature enough. From the point of view, it is not just a cross-link at least at this stage. On the Oracle side, this is a need, especially in the popularization of smart contracts, we need the blockchain can access external systems, in a sense, the current blockchain is an algorithm-driven self-consistent Closed system, the logic is pre-set. Through Oracle we can introduce external data sources to trigger the execution of the contract. There are many directions on how to solve the problem of credible data sources. One is a centralized approach, such as providing data sources by auditing companies and government departments. Another way to go to the center is to introduce games and mortgages. Punish fraud and reward honest data sources and establish a preferred positive feedback mechanism. Of course, there are many other solutions, there is a lot of community research, Microsoft also has a cryptolet project.

Question 8: Ask a funny, 10 times eth, I have been curious about this issue, high-dimensional playing low-dimensional, non-dimensional entanglement. You must have thought about this 10 times the problem or possible direction method, want to hear you talk about the possibility of 10 times the direction of eth?

A: 10 times ETH advanced concepts and technology iteration. At present, ETH has basically done its best to make investment through ICO. Investing has completed the entire process in 15 seconds (DD TS Token release). It takes a few months, compared to the traditional melting of an angel, which is a difference of 15 seconds vs 3 months. So somehow, ETH becomes the largest investment and financing platform in the world. This is also the largest application of Ethereum, but the application of other smart contracts but did not develop. From the perspective of cash philosophy, there are several directions: 1, distributed governance (refer to bitcoin 1M to 2M process and DAO processing); 2 system of self-evolution and evolution; 3 ease of use, 10 times the promotion.

From a technical point of view: 1, scalability (full node size participation threshold TPS equivalent rights); 2, privacy and application independence and loose coupling (refer to Parity theft); 3, better flexibility (More types of virtual machines and a wider range of smart contract languages); 4, the network layering and partitioning and data compression; 5, a new consensus mechanism (often require a few years of testing and practice) and so on.

Question 9: There is also a question about the current blockchain + distributed computing. In my opinion, if the dapp market can really be bigger in the future, it will solve the problems of computation, storage and node acceleration based on the blockchain solution. Currently I see several projects on distributed computing are based on the construction of Ethereum, are worrying about the performance, how do you think?

A: Distributed computing is not much research, but its initial project should come from MaidSafe (https://maidsafe.net/), a nearly 10-year project, essentially Proof of Resource APP Note: that is, the aforementioned POS). In addition, many computing types are not really suitable for distributed processing. Serial processing of data is basically impossible to achieve the acceleration of computing through distributed computing. Distributed computing may be able to handle similar game rendering and Image rendering needs, but I do not know how big this market, another distributed computing, how to use a common programming language to describe the calculation of the task to be calculated, and accurately submitted to the computing node, is also a problem. This one can consult the head of distributed computing projects.

Question 10: Shuai always give you a simple comparison of the following characteristics and advantages and disadvantages of the underlying chain: BTC / QTUM / ETH / EOS / NEO / ELASTOS. Thank you!

A: BTC: Theological Narratives, Community Consensus, Completed Transition from Carriage to Car, Belonging to the Encrypted Currency Attributes, Just Wanting to Be a Cryptocurrency Attribute, UTXO and POW, and Some Standard Trading Types, Assures Security as a Security Stable and reliable cryptocurrency system, a point-to-point electronic cash system. But this is instead the most wild imagination of mankind, and what is more imaginative than creating money?

ETH: smart contract and Dapp platform, before the rise of ICO in March 2017, Ethereil did not show any special advantages, smart contract nor any sign of mass landing, an angel of manhood, promoted Ethereum However, smart contracts are still at an early stage and are still far away from large-scale applications. However, smart contracts should be time-tested in addition to cryptocurrency. Techno-Ethereum is essentially a Global account state machine, through the contract, the funds and data of the account to operate, compared to bitcoin more flexibility. But now also faces various technical challenges.

Qtum Quantum Chain: The Bottom BTC-based UTXO Model (Secure and Reliable) The Account Abstraction Layer supports a wide range of virtual machines (X86 developed by Ethereum EVM + Qtum) and future support for various programming languages ​​(C ++ Rust) to write a smart contract, is essentially a layered design, taking into account security and flexibility. In addition the underlying is already POS, and there are more than 3500 full nodes. Both EOS and NEO are evolving toward high TPS, but at this moment, I personally feel if I'm in the public chain or need to balance TPS and decentralize. If it is for business services is not needed.

ELASTOS is based on the bottom of the NXT to achieve a distributed computing, the recent lack of attention, but NXT as the earliest implementation of a POS, account-based blockchain system, many of the back of the system is very helpful (NEM, etc. ), NXT technically made a lot of contribution to the development of the blockchain industry, but neglected to manage and operate, early token holders are too concentrated.

Question 11: At present more discussion is the public chain and the basic agreement, the application of technology in the future how to develop, what application scenarios faster landing?

A: At present, the entire blockchain technology is still in an early stage of evolution. When we stood in the Internet age 20 years ago, it was hard to imagine that today we can call an uber by mobile phone. The development of technology gives us a richer diversity. Possibilities are the future. From an application perspective, the blockchain industry is indeed in the early stages of its application. Cryptocurrency is relative to the blockchain, similar to Email versus Internet, but the development behind the Internet goes far beyond emailing for information exchange, Then the future development of the blockchain will certainly not stop at cryptocurrencies born for value (consensus) exchange. Cryptocurrency is just the beginning. From a scenario perspective, the biggest feature of blockchain technology is that it guarantees a trustless platform through a variety of technologies, a trust-free platform that reduces the cost of all business transactions.

From a ground-up perspective, I think there are a few scenarios for the future to fall easily: 1. The game industry (virtual props and game channel changes); 2. Digital content areas (video, audio, and text); 3. Changes in ID; 4, the financial sector (everyone through the smart contract to provide insurance services); 5, the organizational structure change, instead of the company system; 6, of course, VC investment in the field of investment; 7, digital asset services opportunities (wallet, exchange, And liquidity). Future scenarios should be over and over, but at this stage there is no chance of disrupting BAT and Mito core business (Haha, in addition to cryptocurrencies and plutonium), BAT and Mito solve a fundamental human need and have broad consensus .

Question 12: First ask yourself a few questions: blockchain where the biggest investment opportunities?

A: Based on the change and disruptiveness brought about by cryptocurrency, its wealth is created faster than the industrial revolution and the information revolution. From an investment point of view, I personally feel that there are several good directions: Basis of the public chain of the encrypted currency (cryptocurrency and token), which has basically become the industry index; 2, with the blockchain technology closely and has a specific application scenario token; 3, the bottom of the blockchain technology research and development (industry In the early stages); 4, Encryption asset service entrance (wallet, exchange, IM); 5, breakdown of various industry scene (games, entertainment, Internet of things, ID, medical field, supply chain); 6, Change Research, and Economics Studies, and Think Tanks, and Depth Media.

Question 13: Is cryptocurrency popular at large scale?

A: The development of technology is leapfrogging and difficult to pull back. With the car, the car will never disappear again, though the wagon still lasts for hundreds of years. The advent of cryptocurrency is not a coincidence, but is accompanied by the maturity of various internet infrastructures and the enlightenment of Cyber ​​punk movement concept. It belongs to the fusion of technology and thought, not just to technological innovation. Personally, I think the cryptocurrency is unlikely to disappear The widespread adoption of cryptocurrency depends on the applicability of the cryptocurrency system, including what rigid demands are being addressed, and for the moment the greatest use is to provide people around the world an option: a very fluid Transparent, credible, secure global assets.

Question 14: How to build a valuation model of blockchain platform?

A: This article I have sent an article before, this is a big problem for the industry, we do not have a valuation system to achieve early warning and assessment of risk, the valuation of a project depends on what elements?

Before writing something for your reference. http://www.gongxiangcj.com/posts/3895 "The total number of nodes and cryptocurrency valuation model"

Question 15: Who is Nakamoto?

A: From what I learned, Nakamoto is a realist with idealistic feelings. It should be done independently by one person. There are many anonymous tech bucks in IRC channel in 2011 and 2012, on which you can see Nakamoto's figure. In addition to the birth of BTC, there is also a relationship with a Chinese. Wei Dai, Wei Dai, who wrote Bmoney's paper before, Zhong Zhongcong and Wei Dai also had some emails, and mentioned to Wei Dai that he has implemented Bmoney's part of cryptoCurrency, but in the second part of Bmoney there is actually a tentative idea about the contract. We can refer to Wei Dai's thesis at http://www.weidai.com/bmoney.txt and Qtum's idea Wei Dai has had some simple email exchanges, but Wei Dai's interest is no longer in the circle of cryptocurrencies.

Question 16: In all the coins, which one will live the longest?

A: Simply looking at cryptocurrencies, BTC has made a historic jump and also a breakthrough from 0 to 1, followed by many cryptocurrencies ranging from 1 to 1.1 and 1.1 to 1.2 changes, and the cryptocurrency of more than 1 billion U.S. dollars disappears completely Is unlikely, because there is community-driven and governance that communities maintain even if developers do not. However, there are indeed many crypto-currencies that will be eliminated and 95% of the projects should be gone after three years.

Question 17: 18 years blockchain private market analysis, what kind of industry is better?

A: Currently, the industry needs to find applications other than the killer app, which is a cryptocurrency. From a technical perspective, I personally value the concept of the trustless Platform and provide it with projects for the research and development of underlying technologies and application scenarios.

Q18: Which industry has the largest total of all the industries in the blockchain?

A: The cryptocurrency itself seems to be the largest at this moment. Others feel that there are many opportunities for the gaming industry and for digital content (video, audio, text) and financial services, and the Internet of Things.

Question 19: I would like to hear the competition between the public chain and the public relations and cooperation, how to comment on the big brother

A: Last year's growth in the industry, in essence, we are still eating BTC created by the combination of technology and ideas to create a premium in the history of a whole new species, BTC has its historic significance. The groundbreaking idea it brought gradually attracted the public's attention, but from a technical point of view, what BTC can do is limited, but it does solve its positioning. Technology is not good or bad, mainly to meet the needs. BTC technology to meet its point-to-point electronic cash system positioning and needs. We do not expect to build infinite applications in the BTC above, this is impossible. The public chain is indeed an open experimental field and a community-driven evolutionary community of interests. Its vitality is also very strong. However, at present, the problem is that we really need technological progress to further promote the scene. If only from the perspective of cryptocurrency, BTC LTC DogeCoin for a user, in essence, is the same experience, and the experience of Ethereum is not much different. The difference is, BTC and the US dollar experience is very different.

I personally feel that the blockchain industry is an ecology. Whether it is serving one of the areas in the blockchain and ultimately building a blockchain together, it is essentially a collaborative evolution that builds a stronger consensus mechanism. Diversity provides the basis for the choice of consensus, and if there is only one technical direction, then the evolution of technology has become slow. In addition this is only a technical factor, but the blockchain system is not only as simple as technology, there is community community of interests behind.

Q20: What dimensions are the most important when evaluating the value of a blockchain project? What factors can be rejected one vote?

A: The Key Elements of the Encrypted Currency Valuation Model (I send some thoughts that I wrote before) As the first truly successful decentralized e-cash system, bitcoin became the anchor of value in the industry and is now To go to the network with the highest degree of centralization, the design of bitcoin is an electronic currency design that is sufficiently secure, stable and reliable, and has a very low participation threshold in the early stages. It is early everyone can participate, and become a full node without any threshold, anyone can download bitcoin client, early mining in his computer, so in fact the realization of the low threshold of the financial services system, everyone With the freedom to join and exit, bitcoin clients have been rapidly evolving early, and if the client is a game, the Bitcoin client's distribution is a borderless game.

In P2P network, a very important core element is full node. In a P2P network, the total number of nodes basically determines the technical value of this network.

Why do you say that?

In the traditional database domain and distributed system, we study the consistency of the data, there are already many, all major companies have their own solutions, but few companies have tens of thousands of distributed system distributed nodes So most of the research results are more suitable for some enterprises to solve the solution. For example, the Paxos algorithm proposed by Leslie Lamport in 1990 can achieve highly fault-tolerant requirements based on message passing. The latter algorithm is also widely used in google Chubby lock, and Chubby lock behind is widely used in Google's core design Bigtable, bigtable is to support a lot of Google's core business.

The realization of Bitcoin network is a fusion of technology and humanity.

In a traditional distributed network, in a large company's network, each node in many cases is due to network reasons, dropping or sending wrong messages, instead of deliberately forging information for the sake of profit.

The realization of bitcoin is facing a more complicated network environment, not only a more complex network environment, but also a more complicated game of humanity. In the traditional distributed network, no one will consider the introduction of incentives to allow nodes to maintain data consistency, Nakamoto was the first person to do so, and through a resource that can not be monopolized (hash function computing power ) To ensure the effective allocation of accounting rights to avoid single-point ddos ​​attacks on specific accounting nodes.

Bitcoin network to each distributed node in the network, the consistency of each time slice into a time interval consistency, if you look at the global currency bitcoin network, you will find each time slice and time, different The miners in calculating the different chains, in fact, is a bifurcated network, but in a 10-minute time interval, the probability that the data is modified is a Poisson distribution. The probability of the attacker's success is q, The growth of the block is exponentially declining. When the blockchain has six acknowledgments, the attacker's probability of success tends to be essentially zero.

If you are the full node in a Bitcoin network, then you have the largest and equal rights to the network, and you no longer have to trust third parties or give up your rights to others. At present, many other cryptocurrencies tend to be centralized. Many consensus mechanisms realize a fast transaction processing speed. In essence, they deprive participants of their equal rights and allow the network to return to a centralized network. But if we really need to hand over our rights in the blockchain network, banks may be a better choice than a lot of centralized blockchain systems.

At present there are about 13,000 full nodes in the bitcoin network. Due to the characteristics of the p2p network, it is very difficult to accurately count the total number of nodes in the network. These 13000 full nodes bear the accounting of the distribution and transaction of currency, and are also bits The foundation of the currency. Bitcoin is definitely a more distributed clearing network than Alipay, and unlike Alipay, Alipay is just a payment instrument that serves the renminbi system. Bitcoin's global clearing network also has its own currency system --- Bitcoin Compared to the bank, to open a bitcoin "outlets", in fact, only need a computer to run a full node, so the final service boundary bitcoin is no border, the bank and Alipay service object boundary.

Bitcoin achieved a breakthrough from 0 to 1 and completed the carriage-to-car transition (steam engine). In fact, crypto-currencies appeared behind us. In fact, we made some improvements on the basis of Nakamoto. Indeed, we have not Take the carriage again, essentially all the cryptocurrencies are in the car.

If we look at bitcoin from a software science perspective rather than a currency perspective, the various cryptocurrencies that appear later are essentially improvements and enhancements based on bitcoin's open-source software, which many teams make And upgrading, and not much difference, whether it is to change a mining algorithm, or add some total, a lot of bifurcation is done from 1 to 1.001 experiment, bitcoin from paper currency to electronic currency from 0 To 1 transition and fission.

Bitcoin today has the most powerful network effect and the loudest brand effect. Although the technology iteration is very, very slow, some progress has been made one after another. From the perspective of things, it can not be surpassed However, regardless of whether it will be surpassed, the emergence of Bitcoin has its historical inevitability and it will certainly accomplish its historic mission. As the world's largest distributed clearing network and built-in monetary system in the future, as well as the anchor of the value in the parallel financial world in the blockchain and the boost of wild human nature, it is hard to predict where its future highs will be. But aside from other factors aside, cryptocurrency has opened up a new era in which its market value should surpass the previous wave of the Internet age.

Question 21: Blockchain whether the future is required to apply for a license to do?

A: From the future development of cryptocurrency, this is a necessity.

Question 22: The future of blockchain in the IP field?

A: This still needs to be solved both on the chain and on the chain, and on the integration with the existing legal system. But purely virtual assets may not be needed for audio / video preservation in the art and electronic formats of game props and electronic designs, for example. But no matter what kind of industry, we have to think about, in addition to the token premium liquidity brought us by the blockchain, the blockchain really helped solve what problems?

Question 23: Now the real consumption of blockchain project is not much, why do not wait for the project landing, re-vote? Tencent like buying now is not too late. Estimated seed round billion reasonable?

A: The revolutionary ideas and new technologies have brought a lot of imagination, mixed with human speculation and greed.

Question 24: Want to know handsome boss how to treat EOS Q1 beta.

A: The specific progress is not too much attention to detail, each project has its own position, as long as the solution to a certain area or the general needs, I personally feel that are very valuable. But we also look at the duration of the project is also to our own positioning, if the measurement of time is one day, it is trader, if it is a month, it is a short-term speculators, if it is one year, in the block chain industry is long-term investors If it is three to five years or ten years, it's the value discoverer and the leader in technological change.

Blockchain similar to the Internet, is a 10 years, 20 years of things.

Q25: What kind of impact can blockchain have on the economic vitality of the third and fourth tier cities today? When will have an impact?

A: I do not know this one. (This article exclusive first chain get App)

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